Thanks Major for the lyrics, really handy on the iPod Touch.

You would delete my comment about Microsoft charging for Crash Course, wouldn't you? That's almost as pathetic as charging in the first place.

I did, is that new software? I've never seen comments deleted before. Since you're reading this, do you really think it was fair for Microsoft to charge for Crash Course?

Good to know that you at least see that it's unfair. Too many people running MS are just in it for the money. I gladly accept paying for the superior service, Xbox Live, over PSN, but when I pay for it and still get screwed over by paying for stuff that should be free, it's a letdown.

Thanks for letting the right people know Major   :)

Thanks for posting the show.

Major is this the one with Mikey Neuman from Gearbox?

mikeyface on Twitter "Just finished up with @MajorNelson. Lotta fun, he asks good questions.2:15 PM Oct 2nd from TweetDeck "

Personally, I love the new Crash Course map and I can fully understand why there was a fee for it, even if it was a bit hefty for a two level campaign - take other games developers for example, if valve release their content for free then other gamers might think they are being ripped off and treated unfairly and it puts pressure on other devs - also Microsoft are providing the means to distribute this content to the consumer therefore it is only right that a portion of the money pays for this. It has nothing to do with MS being money grabbers.

Valve only release DLC for the PC users for free because it is their service and it is easier to do. I wouldn't blame either party too heavily as there are reasons, some of which we might not know or fully understand but I am positive that if it was viable, it would have been free.

Looking forward to hearing this one.  As far as  Crash Course goes, even though pc gamers got CC4Free, I would've paid the $7 had it been a full 5 level campaign.  Since it was only a 2 level campaign, the price tag is more than a little steep.

@ Major Nelson

What about the people that paid 800 points for Crash Course?

@x2i4eva the complaints over the L4D crash course is that it was meant to be free of charge, not about is it worth the 560points. it is free on the pc, but microsoft have put a price tag on it, i'm sure the map pack is worth 560 points but that isn't the point unfortunately.

@Vasilii Zaytsev the only time when comments get deleted if you go too aggressive against the mighty microsoft, i think i have had the odd comment removed :D

@Vasilii Zaytsev also you state superior service of xbox live over psn, cross game voice chat is rumoured this month on playstation, once that happens xbox live has nothing over the PSN, well, nothing £40+ is going to be worth.

@everybody, on a side note, in the uk this month fifa 10 (probably the biggest game in the uk) has sold more on the ps3 than xbox, thats what amazon.co.uk, play.com and another major online retailer have announced, this to me shows that the tide is turning, you xbox fan boys might be getting very good deals from microsoft soon when they realise the money is going to sony.

also uncharted 2 has outsold halo 3 odst and it isn't even out yet!!  

@ x2i4eva

Crash Course on PC = Free

Crash Course on 360= 560 MSP

It's just not right.

@ RidinSlow

What does that have to do with this thread?

@ Lynch182

Fifa 10: Can we have some evidence plz - i have not come across that story :?

If there is nothing different between XBL & PSN after the next update, Microsoft better drop the Gold fee - especially since they're not even using dedicated servers for games; it's P2P!

ODST is a bit of a rip off imo - a bit too expensive for what it is.

Even though it's £30, still not really enough content (v. short campaign) to justify the price.

@K1LLER HORNET: No _WAY_ should they remove the gold subscription fee from XBL.  

If that were to happen, the quality of gaming would tank.   I mean, if you have nothing to worry about or lose, why not flip everyone off, or try out an exploit, or threaten someone under bogus credentials, etc etc etc...  

Back in the days of BBSes, we used to abhor the CMK's (Christmas Modem Kiddies) who upon getting themselves online would usually choose to spout ignorance and profanities and clog up the systems for weeks.  The free services would get killed with noobs. (Not *ALL* bad, but more than 1/2)  Meanwhile those on Compuserve and whatnot didn't have the same issues.   Why?  People aren't usually willing to PAY to make a jack-a$$ out of themselves.

I don't want the same experience in Halo 3 or ODST.   Imagine if every match had a bunch of jokers who dropped, team-killed, or were just ignorant to the rules and too inconsiderate to learn them?

Simply put, the price-tag keeps the riff-raff out of the system, and I am FINE with that.   In fact, I don't think I'd have it any other way.

----

Thanks for the show again Larry, your efforts are appreciated!

@K1LLER HORNET  there is the evidence you were requesting from me in regards to fifa selling more on playstation than xbox, at the retailers i mentioned, i don't know about stores but to me play.com and amazon have a very big share of the gaming market. i don't know what game and gamestation are doing as i don't use them. lets hope they drop the gold charge when sony overtakes them.

www.beefjack.com/.../ps3-fifa-outsells-xbox-uk

@LYNCH182 - If you think Sony is going to keep PSN free forever, you're kidding yourself. Sony stumbled big time this generation and considering the initial cost of the PS3 and lack of games in the first year, it didn't have much of a choice but to launch PSN free. Consider what PSN was when it first started and it would have been suicide to charge a monthly fee. I don't doubt that once they got enough compelling services in there, that you'll see a charge for PSN on the PS4. Not unless the PS3 makes a definitive move to number 2.

@The Detective - it would be naive of me to think it would be free forever, but if they get cross game chat sorted out so i can talk to my friends whilst playing a different game, then i'd happily pay a subscription fee if needed. which is something that i won't be renewing on xbox. my ps3 hasn't broken on me, nor has it chewed away at my discs and made them unplayable, unlike the xbox. i hope microsoft go bust and lose all of their customers, because that is the least they deserve. maybe you have never had a faulty xbox but i reckon at least 95% of everybody who has had an xbox over a year has had a problem, i read comments on here of people on their 6th and 7th console, now that is ridiculous.

I am not saying I am happy with the fact that Crash Course has a price tag for Xbox 360 and I am definitely not disputing that 560MSP isn't too much, I am just looking at the factors which may have come into play when deciding whether or not it should have had a price tag attached.

Fair enough the PC get it for free but that was Valve's decision to do so, granted we pay for our Gold subscriptions to Xbox Live so we should really be given more things for free just to make things a little better for us paying customers - but we do have deal of the week and other Gold only promotions...

All I am saying is that if other devs see Valve giving all of their DLC away for free, it will put pressure on them from the fans to do the same and not all devs are as financially secure enough to do this all the time. Also a portion of that goes to MS for hosting it and providing a means to download it which is fair enough.

Bottom line though is if you don't want to pay for it then fine, miss out but stop whining about it - or the alternative would be to get L4D on Steam (which also costs money) and then you can get the DLC for free. Either way there will be a fee!

@X2I4EVA - So what if Valve wanting to release the content for free puts pressure on other devs? The guy from Capcom were gloating over devs being upset about Bionic Commando: Rearmed being priced so low. Does that change the fact that others are putting out games at 800 points that might "not have as much content"? With that logic, you might as well give Rocksteady and Eidors some hell because they gave away a map pack for free. How dare they put pressure on devs too. Why didn't MS FORCE them to charge like they did Valve? The truth is, there's a market for free and paid content, and its up to publishers and consumers to determine what has value and what doesn't.