703: XSX Back Compat, Smart Delivery and The Ascent

Larry Hryb:
Hi, it's Larry Hryb Xbox Live's Major Nelson. Welcome to the show. We're here in the podcast. Joining me as always via our virtual link, the internet.

Jeff Rubenstein:
The remote location out in Seattle. It's very far from you [crosstalk 00:00:13].

Larry Hryb:
Jeff, how are things out there in Seattle? Oh, man this is crazy.

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's raining. It's 59 and rainy. Welcome to summer.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I got to tell you, this summer weather up here in Seattle is killing me. It's killing me, it's killing you. This is a true story. As you know Jeff, as you, I've got a wife and daughter, and they usually leave when we're recording this because my daughter's little ... She's young so she's a little noisy. Last time we recorded the show I called and said, "Hey, Jeff and I did the show. Whenever you want to come home, whatever." She says, "All right, well..." I said, "Where are you?" She said, "I'm at the airport." I said-

Jeff Rubenstein:
What?

Larry Hryb:
"What are you doing?" She's like, "I don't know." I was like, "Okay, are you going somewhere?" She's like, "Well, I want to feel like I'm going somewhere but we may. I'll let you know."

Jeff Rubenstein:
Things all right over there Larry?

Larry Hryb:
No, everything's great. My wife's just had it-

Jeff Rubenstein:
We're all under a lot of stress.

Larry Hryb:
My wife's just had it with the weather. We need it. But that's not why you're here. Thanks for joining us today, we're back with another great video podcast. It's lovely.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Let's not say it's great yet. That's for you to judge in an hour, yeah.

Larry Hryb:
A lot of great-

Jeff Rubenstein:
[crosstalk 00:01:23] Let's not make promises we can't keep.

Larry Hryb:
I don't like to put my rest and my soul and my moral compass on the YouTube comments, because that's always dangerous. But the YouTube comments for the show they seem to be positive. People seem to like to see you at least. I don't know about me, but they like to see this type of interaction.

Jeff Rubenstein:
We're going into month four with no haircut and the ratings are down, Larry. People are not ... They're not pleased. My wife certainly isn't.

Larry Hryb:
Mine is in the process of getting it done as well. I know that yours is ... You're a little bit more, I don't know ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
The headset is doing a lot of work. I understand headbands. My daughter will sometimes wear a headband. You take this off, the hair goes all over the place. With this on, I'm walking in the park with this on. It's on all the time now. The back ... By the way, I don't want to say business in the front it is definite mullet territory back there. It's no good.

Larry Hryb:
Do you have a mullet? Can you ... That's awesome. Let's go to full screen here. Can you ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
There's more there than I would like, right?

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, that's ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
There's more back there and there's less in other places than I would like.

Larry Hryb:
All right, you guys don't care about our hair. You care about-

Jeff Rubenstein:
I know [crosstalk 00:02:35].

Larry Hryb:
... video games. It was a big week last week. We talked a lot about, PlayStation had their event. That looked like it was a good event. A lot of people are excited about that. We've got ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
Out of that there were a lot of announcements that apply to us as Xbox fans, like Resident Evil Village is going to be great [crosstalk 00:02:50].

Larry Hryb:
GTA.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yep, GTA 5. Hitman 3, which looks really cool. We have actually a blog post that went up this Wednesday about it arriving on Xbox One and Xbox Series X in January 2021.

Larry Hryb:
Where is that? I'm over here on the Wire, I don't see it. There it is.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Right there. Look for the Chrome Dome.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, there it is.

Jeff Rubenstein:
What's cool is progression and unlock from Hitman 2 do carry over to Hitman 3.

Larry Hryb:
Fun.

Jeff Rubenstein:
That's really cool.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
[crosstalk 00:03:23] must have something to catch up on.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. Usually we got to go through here. You've got your console on in the back. I've got my console ... By the way, I've got my ... A lot of people don't ... Have you seen this before? This is a ... Just hold on a second, let me grab this. I don't know if I can't get ... Well I can't get it because I can't reach it because I'm all strapped in here, but ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
Don't dislocate a shoulder Larry.

Larry Hryb:
I've got-

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's [crosstalk 00:03:40].

Larry Hryb:
... my Xbox pride flag which is something internal. We don't sell those because it's Pride Month. But what we do sell Jeffrey and I know you're excited about this is, we sell these guys.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, I think I bought mine at E3 last year, and ...

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I've got a couple of these and this was obviously when it's sealed up, but we're back again with these. You can go to gear.xbox.com, the Xbox gear store and they've got all that over there.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, it's ... June is Pride Month and they have some really cool gear. Really love the designs. I actually ordered some stuff just waiting for it to arrive, so maybe next show.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. Anyway yeah, we kind of walk him through what we're playing and I need to figure out what I'm playing, because I've been busy with ... We've been busy with work. We're prepping. There's a big event coming up in July that a lot of people are prepping for. We talked about that and Phil's been talking about that as well. But we're prepping for that. Play some more Apex as usual.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Like you do.

Larry Hryb:
Let's take a look here and see exactly what I'm playing. Anyway, oh Mafia. I'm playing Mafia.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I know. I saw you've been playing Mafia 2?

Larry Hryb:
Mafia 2, yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Or ...

Larry Hryb:
I got to tell you a funny story about Mafia 2. This is the one that came out and it's funny because ... I played Mafia 3, which is the one that takes place in-

Jeff Rubenstein:
New Orleans ...

Larry Hryb:
... New Orleans right.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... or [inaudible 00:04:58] is what I think the city is there.

Larry Hryb:
It's funny with this one is they, and I should boot it up here. If you've played Mafia 3, a couple of things unlock in the Mafia 2 update like my car. I've got this 1967 Chevy Chevelle convertible rolling around in 1940s in this Metro area. It's pretty fun because there's [inaudible 00:05:22] and then the police are chasing me in their little cars, boom, out I go. It's pretty funny. I've done some fun stuff with it. I've really been enjoying that.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, I played Mafia 2 back when it first came out. I think it was like the closest thing to Goodfellas the game. There's even someone cooking spaghetti in prison, if I recall.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I've just got past that, which is funny because I believe there's a couple of actors in it from The Sopranos, which of course is kind of a progression from Goodfellas. Yeah, so I've been playing that. It's funny, as I was playing it, I said, "Why did I get this car?" It told me that I unlocked it from Mafia 3. Then I had this fond memory of you and I at the Mafia 3 event in Germany. Do you remember that?

Jeff Rubenstein:
That was one of the most amazing events I had ever gone to without question.

Larry Hryb:
It was a lot of fun. What it was is ... How many years ago was that, three or four at least?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Oh my god, no. That must have been 2015-

Larry Hryb:
Anyway-

Jeff Rubenstein:
... at the latest.

Larry Hryb:
... [crosstalk 00:06:27] four years ago. But yeah, we got there. They got us all sorts of stuff to ... They give us Cuban cigars and crazy stuff. It was a lot of fun, and [crosstalk 00:06:36] was fun.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, kind of felt bad. I was like, "I don't smoke. Someone else will appreciate this more than I will."

Larry Hryb:
But anyway, so yeah, I've been playing Mafia 2, and that's been a lot of fun. Check that out. We had a huge sale, Xbox digital game sale that we had on recently. If you were looking to pick up and find something new, that's the place to do. What about you, Jeffrey, what are you playing?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Well, I guess we're both on an organized crime kit because I've been playing Yakuza Kiwami. My weather skills are all, it's very different from the way it works. When you're doing weather, it's more of a mirror image instead of the reverse. Anyway. Yeah, Yakuza Kiwami, which is a remake of the original Yakuza, which came out on the PS2 10, 15 years ago whenever it was. It's modern ... Yakuza Zero I think, is probably a little bit more modern than this. They both came out around the same time.
It's definitely a smaller game than Zero but really cool all the same, so it's cool to see things that happened in Yakuza Zero and moves on X amount of years later, and looking forward to your Yakuza Kiwami 2 which we announced back at XO19 will be coming to Xbox this year. I don't know when. We've been asked a few times. As soon as we know, you will know. I can't wait. I'm so drawn into this universe. Actually a really good ... We've seen a lot of ... There were summer game shows. There was the Gorilla Game Show that was hosted by Greg Miller. IGN has done some summer events where ...

Larry Hryb:
How is Greg? I've got to get on his show and I got to ... We should get him on the show as well. You know who wants to be on this show?

Jeff Rubenstein:
I think it would be great.

Larry Hryb:
I've got a lot of folks who've been calling me saying [inaudible 00:08:16], Gary Whitta wants to come on this show.

Jeff Rubenstein:
That would be amazing.

Larry Hryb:
Gary's got his own show.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, Garry Whitta who you might know from ... He's shown up a lot of times on [crosstalk 00:08:24].

Larry Hryb:
Who you might know who's done Star Wars work. He's done everything.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. Yes, and [inaudible 00:08:30] the Book on Eli. Didn't he write that?

Larry Hryb:
Yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Also hosting Animal Talking, which really has blown up this year-

Larry Hryb:
That's his podcast.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... a talk show within animal crossing. Yeah, that is this podcast. He's working on some other stuff as well so-

Larry Hryb:
We're going to do crossover Jeff.

Jeff Rubenstein:
[inaudible 00:08:44].

Larry Hryb:
We'll do a crossover.

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's a crossover event. It's like when Law and Order crosses over with Chicago Fire or something like that.

Larry Hryb:
It's a very special event.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You only do that during sweeps months right?

Larry Hryb:
The television motion picture event you won't want to miss.

Jeff Rubenstein:
A very, very special episode. Greg, I've talked to him a couple times. But I do miss ... We would have been at E3 last week, and so that's when I would have seen and caught up with a lot of people in person.

Larry Hryb:
Hopefully it would have gotten on his show as well, but whatever.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah [inaudible 00:09:15]. They would love to have you on there. I think it's just a matter of connecting the dots. But anyway, on the IGN show, they had a localization manager from Sega of America. The localization on these games is just so good.

Larry Hryb:
Now, it's funny because this is an area, Jeff, that people are like, "Localization, A; what's that and B; why should I care?" Why don't you explain a little bit about what localization, because this is actually really interesting. I don't mean to put you on the spot.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Right. No, it's fine. I've never been a localization manager, but I've talked to teams like Sega and Atlas in the past about what goes into it. It's not just translations. They're not just running this stuff through Google or Bing translate and popping it out there. Even in my very, very limited Japanese, like incredibly limited ... Sometimes I'm like, "Oh, that's not exactly word for word what they said. I heard something different there." But not all references, not all idioms, sayings that were written into the original game like this make sense in American English, or wherever else they're translating to. It's not just translation, but it's taking-

Larry Hryb:
Context.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... it's the meaning, but then also the intent of the meaning and making it work for the audience that is going to be intended to. That might not be who the original writer wrote it for. It might mean changing some jokes, changing some references. If they're referencing a TV show that people outside of Japan wouldn't understand, they're going to take that out and as you're playing these games, it all make sense to you. A well localized game just plays awesome and it blends into the background. I will say having played now through Zero and Yakuza Kiwami back to back, they did a fantastic job with these.
I'm very much into the universe, and to get back to what I was saying, Yakuza Like a Dragon, which we've already confirmed is coming to Xbox One and via smart delivery to Xbox Series X, when that comes out, it looks really cool. This is the most I've seen it. It's more of an RPG version take on the Yakuza world. It's a new hero. You have almost like a squad of, at least the footage, I saw four different players at once. It just looked a much bigger world anyway, couldn't be more hyped for that and we'll be playing it this year.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, so the localization though, that's a fine, fine art that's kind of, I want to say a little bit under appreciated. That's one of those things of course, it just works well. Again, to your point, you can't just run it through Google Translate or Bing translate. That's the easy, sloppy way to do it. But it may lose some punch.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, exactly. Again when it's done right, you don't even notice it. The game is just enjoyable and it blends into the background. But a lot of hard work goes into that and there's some really talented people doing that.

Larry Hryb:
Anyway, I'm looking, I've actually got my game booted up here as well. I've got my game for Mafia and it's ... It's funny that you and I are on that similar crime spree kind of thing. I'm in fictitious New York, East coast and you're in ... is it to take place in proper Japan or is it something similar?

Jeff Rubenstein:
It does. It takes place in a fictionalized area of Tokyo near Shinjuku and in another-

Larry Hryb:
Which I spent a lot of time there. You spent a lot of time there as well, didn't you?

Jeff Rubenstein:
There's a lot going on in Shinjuku. Maybe I didn't get into a lot of fights, or anything like that. It seems like here you can't walk down the street without people picking fights. That's very different than my experience in Japan. But then again, I'm not walking around in a Yakuza suit [crosstalk 00:12:52].

Larry Hryb:
But no, I just remember when we would go over there ... When we would go over there from Microsoft for TGS back in the day, we would stay in the Shinjuku area. When you were working Sony, were you staying in the Shinjuku area as well?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Usually stayed in the Roppongi area which did come into play in one of ... I think in the end of Yakuza Zero.

Larry Hryb:
I never went there. But I heard many stories about Roppongi Hills.

Jeff Rubenstein:
There's some great restaurants. There's some places to try some sake or some ... if you've never been. Japan is just amazing. When travel resumes, it is literally at the top of my list the place that I want to go back to first, because after playing this, it's really ... There's small little details that I'm like, "It's exactly like that. The sound when you walk into a convenience store, it makes that sound," and it just is-

Larry Hryb:
That's right.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... it's hitting all of those nostalgic feels and I want to go back.

Larry Hryb:
What was the name of the drugstore? Lawson's that was the name of the drugstore [crosstalk 00:13:47].

Jeff Rubenstein:
Lawson's yeah, AMPM.

Larry Hryb:
AMPM.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You've never been to convenience stores this nice.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. You've ever been to a 7-11 [crosstalk 00:13:54] that it is this amazing.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, there's nothing quite like it and the coffee in the cans, it's exceptional. Anyways-

Larry Hryb:
All right, let's keep going along here-

Jeff Rubenstein:
That's what I'm playing.

Larry Hryb:
... because we talked a little bit about this at the top of the show, but I've got a bunch of interviews this show. I've got Jason Ronald who's going to stop by, did the interview earlier. He's going to tell us a little bit more about Xbox back-compat. You thought you knew everything about back-compat. Maybe not, maybe you'll learn something in this interview. Then he segues right into something we recently announced or gave details on which is smart delivery for Xbox Series X.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Just like we talked about with Yakuza Like a Dragon, the right bits are going to go to your machine and wherever you go. You're going to play the best version of the game.

Larry Hryb:
The best bits you can.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You only buy it once.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. He'll give us details on that. Then after that I had a chance to catch up with the founders of Neon Giant, Arcade Berg and Tor Frick. That's the studio responsible for the Ascent. Now, we saw that Last month, right, Jeffrey?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, it's one of the games that came out of our showcase in May that people were like, "That looks really cool. I want to learn more about that." I'm looking forward to watching your interview as well.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. We got that coming up. We should kind of get through what news we have or details we want to talk about, and we can go to those. Because then we got a lot to talk about, but it's a busy, busy time, isn't it?

Jeff Rubenstein:
It is. I have a lot of news but why don't we ... I would love to hear from Jason Ronald.

Larry Hryb:
Sure.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I would love to hear that interview. Can we do that?

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. Let's go ahead and roll that interview, and then we'll come back on the other side and talk a little bit about it, so here we go.
As promised, joining us is Jason Ronald. He's the Director of Program Management for Xbox Series X. Jason, great to have you back on.

Jason Ronald:
Thanks very much Larry. Excited to be back.

Larry Hryb:
Now, you and I talked on the audio podcast, does that not feel like it was like five months ago? It seems like it was forever ago and there's-

Jason Ronald:
It's definitely been a long time ago.

Larry Hryb:
There's been a lot of activity since now and then, a lot of news and details coming about of Xbox Series X. I wanted to get you back on because we're doing this explainer series on Xbox Wire, and I thought it'd be great to have you come on. We had two recently, one of which was for back-compat, and the other was around smart delivery. I figured I'd get back on and talk about, back-compat, the back-compat program, and what's new in Xbox Series X. How's that sound?

Jason Ronald:
That sounds great.

Larry Hryb:
Why don't you get us started and tell us a little bit about what we talked about in this explainer about a back-compat coming to Xbox Series X, because it's ... A lot of folks have heard of the term but maybe they just don't know what it is or maybe they want more information. That's why I've got you here.

Jason Ronald:
Sure. One of our commitments, is to make sure that the thousands of games that play on Xbox One X today will continue to play on Xbox Series X later this holiday. Not only do we make sure that people are able to [inaudible 00:16:58], but we also want to make sure playing the best versions of the games possible. One of the things that we're doing is we're making sure that as the games are up and running on the next generation platform, that we're unlocking the full power of Xbox Series X for these titles. The titles will actually be running better than you've ever seen them before.
If a game uses dynamic resolution scaling as an example, you'll always be running at the highest resolution. You'll also get the faster load times and it's just, it's a much more immersive experience. Beyond that, we're also enhancing the titles at the platform level. We're adding capabilities like auto HDR, where we can actually retro actively apply HDR to games from the Xbox One that maybe never had HDR enabled, even on Xbox 360 and our original Xbox games all the way back to games like Fusion Frenzy, which were written almost 20 years ago and look great in HDR.

Larry Hryb:
Now, wait a minute. I got to talk to you a little about that, because when we announced that, and I remember you showing me in the lab that day, I was looking at this going, "How do you put information there or take information out that was never there before?" That just seems like some level of wizardry.

Jason Ronald:
Absolutely, and it was really funny. It was a great collaboration with the Xbox Advanced Technology Group, really building brand new techniques, where we can actually build an HDR reconstruction using the data that the title is outputting from so long ago, and it looks significantly better. There's so many games that I've played with HDR now enabled, and it's just, it's a significant visual impact and it just really makes the title pop.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. The data is there and you guys are just taking the data and looking at it in a brand new way and being able to take it and create this amazing HDR experience. You're right, Fusion Frenzy, which is almost 20 years old, it just keeps looking better and better. It's unbelievable.

Jason Ronald:
Absolutely, and you really think about the fact that, in many ways, this is how you remember these games playing. But when you actually play it on an Xbox Series X, they look and play better than they even did many, many years ago.

Larry Hryb:
Now, one of the things we talked about is the back-compat program, which has been going on for many years. But there's a different approach that we take that maybe some other folks take, like the team works on these and there's a whole workflow that happens. It's not like, "Oh, we're only going to do five or six." We're really interested in bringing as many as we can to folks, aren't we?

Jason Ronald:
Yeah. One of our commitments is the thousands of games that play today, we want to play moving forward. At this point, we've already tested more than 100,000 hours of play tests on the back catalog. By the time that we release later this year, we will have spent more than 200,000 hours playing through all the games, making sure that the games continue to run exactly as you expect them to, and really respecting the original artistic intent that the original creators had.

Larry Hryb:
This really gets to what Phil has talked about and you and I and everybody, frankly have certainly talked about this about putting the players at the center. We don't really want to leave your library behind because we've invested time, and we've invested money in these libraries. Why can't I play those? Anybody out there right now in 2020, should be asking, "Yes, I want to play as many games as possible, right?" It's just seems like a no brainer.

Jason Ronald:
Exactly. Not only that, but it's really great when you take a game from your back catalog, and you launch it on the Xbox Series X. It downloads my game, say from the very last time that I played it, and then I'm able to instantly pick up and play exactly where it was, whether that was two days ago, three months ago, five years ago. I always have that available at my fingertips.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I noticed that when I went back and played. I don't know what I was playing, but it was strange to see back, in the game in itself it told me the last time I played this game was like August 8th, 2011. I was like, "Wow, this is unbelievable," because your games save just come down. Now we talked about all the different technology that is, we talked about maybe HDR and whatnot, but different games are going to get different treatments, right? It all really depends on what the best experience is like? Is that accurate?

Jason Ronald:
Yeah, so the first thing is we just make sure that the game is able to run, and then we run it with the full power of the Xbox Series X. Then there's a handful of games that we actually go through and we enhance ourselves at the platform level. With the Xbox One X, we have the Hachi method, which actually allowed us to increase the resolution that beyond what the original title was designed for. For Xbox Series X, we have a whole playground of additional capabilities that we've never had before.
We're inventing new technologies and new techniques actually upscale more title, and also titles that we're looking at where we're actually checking to see if we can double the frame rates, going from, say 30 frames a second to 60 frames a second, or 60 frames a second even to 120 frames a second. We're constantly evaluating [inaudible 00:22:11] that we can do this, and obviously, with these enhancements, a lot of it's really based on how the title was originally written. We won't be able to do it for all titles. But we're really focused on identifying those titles that we can push even further than even the original creators intended.

Larry Hryb:
I think it's also important to point out that, these games I played a couple back-compat on Xbox Series X in the lab, they load fast. We've all heard about the speed, this generation of things loading and whatnot. But I mean, because these things were written for much older hardware that didn't have this capabilities, that's another area is they just load like that, right?

Jason Ronald:
Exactly. There's one game in my back catalog that had been a really long time since I played it. I fired it up on my Xbox Series X, and I was having a great experience and then I went back and actually played it on my Xbox One X, and I had completely forgotten there were actually load screens in the game, because on the Xbox Series X, it loaded so fast that I never actually even saw the load screen pop up.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. That's ties into something else that we've talked about you and I talked about this in the past is this Xbox velocity architecture. Explain to us what that is, because a lot of folks may not remember.

Jason Ronald:
Sure. The Xbox velocity architecture is really our way of rethinking and re-revolutionizing how an IO pipeline works. There's really four major components of the Xbox velocity architecture. At its core is our custom NVMe SSD. That really is the foundation that everything builds on top of. On top of that, we have dedicated hardware decompression blocks, so that we can stream data off the disk as fast as possible. Then we provide developers with a brand new API called direct storage, that gives them direct low level access to the hardware, so they have a lot more fine grain controls.
Then the real tech brings that all together is sampler feedback for streaming, which actually is really the ultimate solution for game asset streaming, which will really allow developers to work beyond the limitations of technology, and really have instant access to the full collection of assets of their game.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, and it's important to note that, like I said earlier, is that each one of the back-compat titles, they're going to use the technologies in different ways. Some of them will use more than others. Because you have to remember, this is old code. We're not recoding the game. We're taking the code as it was originally written, and doing some ... You guys are doing some magic to it to make it work. We're always going to figure out the best way, and you guys go into the lab and figure out what dials to turn and how to tweak it to really make it shine, that's right?

Jason Ronald:
Exactly, and it takes a lot of work. We always want to make sure that we're respecting the original creators, original vision and their artistic intent. We never want to violate that, but if we haven't opportunity to make the gameplay even better than you've ever had it before, we'll absolutely go do that. Because we want to make sure that your entire library of games move forward with you.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, we preserve your titles and more importantly, we honor the investment you have made, because that's more important. Unfortunately, I don't have all of my games lined up behind me here. But I know a lot of folks do in their gaming rooms, so that's something we want to make sure that you can play what games wherever you want. Great information. We've got a whole blog post on this over at Xbox Wire. I'll link to that in the comments and in the show notes. Jason, another thing that we've been talking about that we announced that ...
First of all, this is great to have you on here. I'm just so excited about it. But another one is smart delivery. There's a lot of elements to smart delivery, but explain to us what we talked about in that blog post about smart delivery.

Jason Ronald:
Sure, so smart delivery is a new technology that we developed with the Xbox Series X, which is that as a player, it doesn't matter which console you're choosing to play on, we will always ensure that you are getting the best version of the game. There's a whole series of titles as an example Gears 5 is actually going to roll up and optimize it for Xbox Series X. They're going to take full advantage of the full power and the capabilities that are with Xbox Series X. If you've already purchased Gears 5, or if you have access to Gears 5 through Game Pass, when you choose to upgrade to Xbox Series X, you will get the Xbox Series X version of the game with no additional purchase required.
You'll just instantly be able to download that latest version and be able to pick up and play exactly from where you began or where you left off. It's really about putting the player at the center of everything that we do, like you mentioned before, and it's really about giving you confidence that you can invest in the Xbox ecosystem thousands of hours or dollars that you've spent into our ecosystem are all going to move forward, and they're going to get better as you upgrade to the next generation.

Larry Hryb:
I think it's also important to point out is that all of our first party titles from the Xbox Game Studios, they're all going to have smart delivery. This is how you tell, this logo right here. That's how you tell and of course, that'll be on the back of the box or on the web page and so forth. There's really some interesting ... some technology that's going on here. But the most important thing is, "Hey, whether you buy an Xbox Series X the moment it's available, or six months or a year later, you're going to always have the best version of the game, right?"

Jason Ronald:
Absolutely. That's the other nice part as well is as you mentioned, all of our first party Xbox Game Studios games will have smart delivery. But we're also making this technology available to all of our partners as well. We're really excited by the uptake that we've seen from a lot of our partners. Titles like Cyberpunk 2077, they'll be able to upgrade. You look at titles like Assassin's Creed Valhalla or Destiny 2, so we're seeing a lot of support from across the industry, because people all really want to make sure we really focus on the player and providing the best experience possible.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, we talked a little bit I believe ... where I was talking with some friends in the office about Halo Infinite, that's going to be available later this year. Then when the Xbox Series X launches, boom it goes. It's just ... you're going to get that bigger experience of tapping into the incredible power of Xbox Series X, right?

Jason Ronald:
Absolutely. Like you said, it really doesn't ... There's no time limit on this either. There's going to be some titles that are actually going to enhance or optimize themselves for Series X later post launch. You can know with confidence that you can go ahead and purchase your titles on Xbox or play your game through Game Pass, and whenever the developer actually chooses to optimize their title for Series X, it'll be their waiting for you. Similarly, if you choose to not upgrade to [inaudible 00:29:00] day one, you can know with confidence that when you choose to those games are waiting for you. You're already playing Xbox Series X Games, even before you have an Xbox Series X.

Larry Hryb:
When you talk about it, it sounds like, "Oh, that makes perfect sense. I'm going to get the best version." But there's actually a lot of technology behind the scenes that makes this happening, and the technology that starts right with the developer, when they're creating the game, correct?

Jason Ronald:
Sure. One of the things that we do is, we're really focused on making developers as empowered as possible with this next generation. When it comes to smart delivery, what we've really tried to do is we've tried to enable the developer to focus on making their game great. Then the actual delivery mechanism that we have on the back end, we handle all that complexity on their behalf. All they really have to focus on is making their game truly optimized for Xbox Series X, and then they submit the title to us and then we make sure that we give the right version to the player, regardless of the console that they're choosing to play on.

Larry Hryb:
I mean, at that point, we talked about putting players at the center. We're almost putting the developers at the center, because they just get to focus on making their great game, right?

Jason Ronald:
Yeah. That's the thing, is when we really designed this program, we really designed this with developers and gamers at the center of everything that we're doing. Because we all know that it's about the universes and the worlds that the best creators all across the world are creating, that really drives us to the platform. We want to make sure that those games look and play best on Xbox X, so that our players have the best experience.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, and I think that's important to point out is that, I know that a lot of folks that listen and watch this podcast are highly technical, but it doesn't really matter, because you don't have to worry about a thing, right? We take care of all of that. We can see, okay, you're on this type of console, we're going to give you the best possible experience, you're on this type, best possible experience. You don't have to ... We're just giving you the background as far as you're concerned, play the game and have fun. That's all that really matters.

Jason Ronald:
Absolutely. That was key to the design of the entire program and the experience behind Xbox Series X. From the design of the hardware, to the software, to the developer tools that we provided developers all across the world, as well as the experiences that we layer on top of it. We really want to make sure that this is the best in class gaming experience for our players all across the world.

Larry Hryb:
That sounds great. Well, Jason, I know we've got some other ... we're going to be talking about some more elements of the of Xbox Series X in the future. I look forward to seeing some blog posts from you, and then we'll have you back on in future shows so we can talk about that. How's that sound?

Jason Ronald:
That sounds great. We've got a lot more information to share later this year, and we can't wait to share more later this summer.

Larry Hryb:
Great. Thanks so much, Jason. We'll have you back on soon. Thanks, Jason. A lot to learn there, a lot to soak up. He's always great to have on there. It's interesting, Jason lives in a very rural area that's why his bandwidth was a little sketchy this time, but more importantly his beard really takes up so much bandwidth, so we've got to help him [crosstalk 00:32:04].

Jeff Rubenstein:
We need next gen rendering really to handle that realistically. I feel smarter already. But if you didn't catch everything he said, Jason's actually been authoring blog posts over on Xbox Wire. You can also find them on majornelson.com, that talk about backwards compatibility, smart delivery. We're working on a series of these for major features. You should probably see some even next week. We're just going to keep those coming so that you can learn everything there is to learn about Xbox Series X and what next gen gaming means.

Larry Hryb:
I was supposed to go over here on Wire looking for it, and you see me doing that.

Jeff Rubenstein:
We've had a lot of news in the past couple days. Slide, we have one towards the top and well anyway, they're all there and we'll make it even easier for you to find it.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I totally forget [crosstalk 00:32:51].

Jeff Rubenstein:
I think at the very top there's a post, yeah.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. I also completely forgot ... This is something we should point out before we get to the next interview is, we had an update, we had an update this week.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah.

Larry Hryb:
A lot of news. I don't know if you want to go through that, or maybe we can cover that when we get to the news later on in the show, Jeffrey.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Sure. It's your show, you tell us when you want to do.

Larry Hryb:
I'm just, I'm all over the place because there's so much news it's like, I don't even know what to say. We need more time, but we don't have it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
This is why I do the new segment Larry.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, that's right.

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's overwhelming for you. Your wife's down at the airport, you don't know what's going on.

Larry Hryb:
She may be on a plane and gone by now for all I know. You know what? You know, she's going to be gone if later on this afternoon I text you, "Hey, we're going to go social distance for dinner."

Jeff Rubenstein:
"Can I come over for dinner?" Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Larry Hryb:
But yeah, so that was ... Anyway, Jason's got some blog posts, and he's got some other stuff coming up too. He kind of teased that at the end of the interview, so stay tuned. We'll have some more details on Wire, and then of course, we'll have him back on to talk about some really cool stuff, more cool stuff, I should say. There you go. That's fun there. Now we've got ... The next interview we've got is ... It's a busy week this week, is with Arcade Berg and Tor Frick the co-founder and creative directors of Neon Giant. These guys are the team behind the Ascent. Now, you remember that trailer from last month, right Jeff?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, exactly. It was one of the ones that people were looking at. I think it looked like maybe an ARPG, sort of an isometric perspective and it definitely was speaking my language, especially as someone who is ... I'm going to do this for the fifth time playing a lot of Minecraft Dungeons right now and totally into that. I love a good ARPG. We'll actually talk about another one that is coming out this week when we get to the news, but I want to learn more. That was just basically what it looked like to me, so let's roll the interview and let's learn more about the Ascent.

Larry Hryb:
Recently, you heard about the Ascent. I'm excited to be joined by the co-founders of the studio. Let me bring them in here gentlemen, how are you? We've got on the line. Let me just bring up your names here. We've got our Arcade Berg in the center and Tor Frick over on the right Gentlemen, welcome to the show.

Arcade Berg:
Thank you very much. [crosstalk 00:35:01] I am with Tor.

Larry Hryb:
Yep. Okay, we've got everybody all figured out here. Let's talk, let's just jump right in here, because the Ascent it was unveiled about a month ago, a little bit more than a month ago but I want to talk to you about the game and what is the game and what can we expect from it?

Arcade Berg:
The game really is an action RPG, one to four players online, offline couch, co-op that whole thing. But it's set in this really cool sci-fi, cyberpunky a world with a violent story and things for you to figure out while growing stronger, getting cybernetic upgrades, augmentations, gear, hacking and just shooting stuff. We're really excited and we're still figuring the details out since it's a very, it's a project very much alive.

Larry Hryb:
When you look at this game, we saw the unveil, what was it like for you guys in the studio to have this amazing reception?

Tor Frick:
Good.

Larry Hryb:
You're a fairly small studio, correct?

Arcade Berg:
Yeah. We're only 11 people. It's definitely very close to our heart. I think one thing was very special for us is that, while we're only 11 people, we've all shipped a bunch of games before and we've worked on fairly famous titles some famous IPS. But no game has ever been this close to heart, since we're just a few developers and also this is all us. This is ours. It's our name, it's our pride and it's our success or our fall. We've never been closer to a project just having that opportunity to announce it on such a global scale, is just mind boggling.

Larry Hryb:
Neon Giant, this is your first step out onto the global stage. The game is going to be available on Xbox Series X, tell us about some of the technology that you're leveraging for Series X, to create these experiences that maybe you haven't been able to do before in some of your previous games. I don't know who wants to take that question.

Tor Frick:
That's for me right? The biggest change is, I think there's like a bunch of things that's going to ... Part of it is just the CPU, which allows us to make the game run at 60 FPS instead of 30, with very little extra work involved, considering how well it scales up. Of course, also you're running at 4K. Then it's just the speed of the hard drive and the loading, everything is just, it's just more ... It was a lot easier to get things running at the target performance and at a performance level and input level that feels much better than the previous generation.

Larry Hryb:
We've talked a lot about the speed and the speed of loading and of course a stronger CPU, but there's so many elements within Xbox Series X. But the worlds that you've created, let's get back to that. How does it enable you to create bigger, better, more exciting worlds? Because I got some B roll here, and I figured maybe we could talk a little bit about that and you can tell us what we're seeing here if that's all right. I don't know who wants to take that one.

Tor Frick:
I think that we were very passionate about creating game worlds that feel alive. Now that we have more resources, we can dedicate more of that to just feeling, make you feel more connected to the world. You have more physics, more reaction to when you're ... the player mainly interacts with the world through the use of explosions mainly. We just have so much more possibility to do things, like more physics objects, more destruction, more reactions in world when the player is shooting, and just having more emphases, more AI. We have hundreds of AIs active at any given time pretty much.
All that stuff is just there. We can just add more and more and more little elements, so we don't have to focus so much on like, "Oh, there's only like five to 10 things active at any time." We can populate the world with just so many different things. How many of them, the player interacts with at any given time? We don't have to strictly control because it's all in the world.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah. Now one [crosstalk 00:39:39] of the things we talked about in video games and you guys know is the game loop, what are we doing and what is the game play like? Can you explain to us a little bit about what we're seeing on screen and what exactly the game loop is like?

Arcade Berg:
Yeah, maybe that's for me then. Controlling games mechanic is very much an action game with direct controls and abilities and tactical equipment. We have a mechanic of shooting high and low so you can shoot over short and [inaudible 00:40:11] recovery, you can crouch and all the stuff which is not often seen in this perspective. We really wanted to allow players to freeform very much with how they play and how they build their character. You've got the visual character customization, but you also are free to try out the different weapon types, different augmentations to give you these special abilities, and we don't want to tie you into making a decision on what class you want to play, a second one of the game, because you don't know what the game you're going to be playing is yet. Versus a cost, we let you change freely as you play and try and adapt to situations.
With that you then also have loot and exploration rewarding you for whatever you want to do. If you want to run out and do side missions, you'll be rewarded for that. If you want to do main missions, of course, you'll progress the main story. But if you just want to go out in the world and try and find loot or hidden, hidden stuff, you'll be rewarded for that. That all ties back into making you stronger, being able to take on the challenges ahead.

Larry Hryb:
What are some of the things that are in this game that you think people are going to get excited about?

Tor Frick:
I think people will be excited about the world, at least I hope they will. It's something that we put a lot of focus on. We tend to say that the world is the main character. I really hope that people will enjoy exploring the world or interacting with the world, because we have the combat loop like Arcade said, we have the main missions, the side missions, all these little things. I hope that people will just feel like it's an interesting world to explore and find out more about.

Larry Hryb:
It's got a very ancient interesting style in terms of the look of it. Let's talk about that a little bit. It's got this Rutger Hauer, this Blade Hauer, excuse me, this Blade Runner esque kind of feel. Tell us about that and the art style that we can come to expect.

Tor Frick:
We're very big fans of let's say, retro sci-fi and things that feels more grounded and more tactile. We don't want to make too much of this, everything's being holographic and too futuristic. We like when things feel heavy, they feel tactile.

Larry Hryb:
It feels industrial.

Tor Frick:
Yeah, very much so. It's also partially because it fits the type of game very well, but also we just like this style, and we like to be able to make big chunky machinery, big chunky robots, explosions, things that look like they wouldn't break if you drop them, right?

Larry Hryb:
Right.

Arcade Berg:
That was the word I was waiting for. I was waiting for chunky.

Tor Frick:
Chunky.

Larry Hryb:
Feels rugged. The world feels very rugged and dirty and gritty. But like you say very futuristic. It's got a really wonderful art style.

Tor Frick:
Thank you.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, that looks really nice. Now, when you were developing for Xbox Series X, I want to talk to you about, we talked a little bit earlier about the different, you had a stronger CPU but tell us a little bit about the hard drive or excuse me, the storage device because not a hard drive just dated myself, but the storage device and that ability for the fast storage to get in and to get to load your worlds quickly and progress. How does that really helped you unlock different methodologies and approaches to game design?

Arcade Berg:
I think it ties into the bigger picture of what next gen is about. I don't want to sound too salespersony here, but I mean, no, no, but I mean, no loading. The open world, the approach that we're taking, it fits together with the quick resume and it fits together with even the smart deployment and all that, because it's all about just accessibility and never being interrupted in playing the game. Even the stuff with 4K, 60 FPS, they're very sexy words and buzzwords, but they actually matter because like with game play like ours, there's actually very tactile and responsive, every frame and it helps with the feel and the sense of combat.
The same thing goes for the world of, if I don't ever have to worry about loading, if I don't ever have to worry about the machine reminding you that this is all an illusion, so you can just be in it and be immersed. That's a huge thing. I think that's one of the coolest thing that's happening now with next gen is that once you're in, you're just going to be there. You're not going to have to worry. You're not going to spend half the time reading loading tips.

Tor Frick:
We spent a lot of ...

Larry Hryb:
I guess the question I was going to have, based on what you were just telling us, Arcade are you telling me we're not going to have any elevators that we have to wait in?

Arcade Berg:
Well, we have to add a delay in our elevators so you actually feel that you're traveling.

Larry Hryb:
Right.

Tor Frick:
But we do have elevators.

Larry Hryb:
But they're [crosstalk 00:45:28] only there for aesthetics and the story, they're not there to hide the fact that there's a lot of loading going on in the background, right?

Arcade Berg:
No, [crosstalk 00:45:37].

Larry Hryb:
There's also some other elements of Xbox Series X, you guys have had a chance to develop it. We've got quick resume. We talked a little bit about responsiveness and then of course, the low latency that we're putting into the controller stack. Could you talk a little bit about that and how important that is for gamers because like, I think people don't realize there actually is a lot of latency unfortunately in the games we're playing today?

Tor Frick:
I think that is one of the biggest things is like this broad, like broad spectrum, just making sure the games actually play better. Because the low latency, both the low latency and things like the variable refresh rate for example, they just do so much in making the game feel fluid instead of like, because as a developer, it also makes our life a lot easier, because if you have to be locked like 30, or 60 FPS, for example, or higher, you have to commit to that frame rate. If it ever breaks, it's going to break the illusion a little bit, and it's going to make the game feel worse.
But with these new technologies, it's a lot more forgiving for developers, which will make games in general just feel better. It's like this kind of invisible thing, but it's going to just across the board make games just control better.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, it's one of those ... You're right, it hard to put your finger on but it just feels and we've all played those games, where it feels good when you're reloading the weapon or you're going through a world and it comes alive and everything just acts and reacts the way it does, but it's one of those things that it's obvious when it's not right, and when it's right it just completely fades away. Would you say that's accurate?

Tor Frick:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's just going to be-

Arcade Berg:
[Crosstalk 00:47:27] go on.

Tor Frick:
Yeah, I think that's just going to be one of those things that people will ultimately get used to. Games are going to get better automatically and just feel better and then people hopefully forget about how it used to be.

Larry Hryb:
Back in the day. Now, can you guys talk a little bit about the games that you all worked on, because you worked on a bunch of different games in your history. We talked about that at the top of the interview. But tell us a little bit about the lineage and where you're coming from.

Arcade Berg:
Well, it's kind of funny because me and Tor by accident have 50% similar career, because we've ended up in the same place. But me personally, I've been on the Gears of War franchise. Did the last like four or five Wolfenstein titles, Machine Games. Was helping with that Epic HQ for the Unreal Four Engine which we're actually using here. Me and Tor both worked on Bulletstorm as well, which was an Unreal Three title. We've shipped a bunch of titles with the tech as well, which is then again, obviously working very well with the Xbox. It all just make sense.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, it sounds like every single title you ticked off, you're like, "Oh, that's fun. That's a great title. Oh, that's a great one." It's got to feel really good to be able to work on those. Tor, tell us about some of your background if you would?

Tor Frick:
Like Arcade said, it's similar. We actually went through university together even. Yeah, I was working at what became Ubisoft Massive, World in Conflict, Far Cry, The Division. Then I was working with Arcade at People Can Fly/Epic Poland on the Bulletstorm and Gears franchise. Then I was also at the Machine Games on the Wolfenstein games there. Yeah, we do definitely have ... We've crossed paths because we ultimately like to make the same games. We really like to make this kind of over the top action experiences with a very strong world building. We don't want to make like PvP games, because the story and the world is very important to us, but so is blowing things up in spectacular fashion.

Larry Hryb:
Now, we talked about your history, which is unbelievable. When you guys look back, you have been through, now it is ... I want to give credit where credit's due but I mean, this would now be me and correct me if I'm wrong, this would be your third console launch in terms of the platform's you worked on, is that accurate?

Tor Frick:
Yes.

Larry Hryb:
I see you guys counting.

Arcade Berg:
Yeah, yeah.

Larry Hryb:
I guess what I'm getting at is ...

Tor Frick:
Yeah second and third, yes.

Larry Hryb:
Second and third.Ttell us about ... Every generation, it's like, "Oh, it's bigger. It's faster." For me from going like Xbox to Xbox 360, it was to the HD generation. It was really from the four by three to this 16 by nine. What have you guys witnessed some of the technology over the past few generations, and what you think the most important ones are?

Arcade Berg:
Okay, I'll jump in. I think that what's so attractive for me and I'm reiterating was like previous generation leaps, we've seen more powerful hardware, more powerful hardware. The Nintendo 64 could do things the Super Nintendo couldn't. That's awesome. But this time, it's so much more player focused, where, how, when do people want to play? The cross platform stuff is just amazing. The instant access, all that I think it's definitely more ... I'm not going to say more consumer friendly, but it's more player focused now. I think that's really refreshing to see and really exciting.
Now, the machines are incredibly powerful now. There is no denying that we can do things we can do now, which we couldn't do before. But as a gamer and someone who's going to buy video games, I think that's one of the really attractive things now. It's a shift in how we think about gaming. I think that's really cool with Microsoft stance on that.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, well, we've definitely tried to do that. Again, you've heard Phil talk about putting the players at the center and that's something that means a lot of things to a lot of different people, whether you're the developer or whether you're the player. That's something we're really focused on, I want to get back to, I know you guys it's late over there in Europe but I want to get back to your title, because this is unbelievable. When can we expect it? When can we expect the title because I know that folks are very excited about the Ascent, and especially after they're seeing some of this amazing game play?

Arcade Berg:
Tor, do you want to take this or should I?

Tor Frick:
No, you can take it.

Arcade Berg:
Okay.

Larry Hryb:
It's all yours Arcade.

Arcade Berg:
Well, we want to get ... Yeah, okay. We just want to get it out there. We are eagerly waiting for Series X, and we're doing everything we can meanwhile, to just figuring out all the cool stuff with the technology, hardware and software available. We're still doing tweaks, mainly around major with the game just trying to make it more fun. Every week you wouldn't believe playing a week old build versus today's or two weeks old versus last week. It's just happening in a very rapid succession, but we just want to get it out along with the next generation.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I know that everyone's excited because they're looking at all the different titles and everything that's been announced recently, and you it feels like it's, "Hey, we've had a difficult ... 2020 hasn't been fun so far, so let's see if we can make the last half of it at least a little bit something to look forward to." All right gentlemen, I really appreciate taking the time to talk to me today. Tor and Arcade I look forward to getting our hands on the ascent whenever you tell us it's ready. Thanks again gentlemen and have a great day.

Arcade Berg:
Thank you very much.

Tor Frick:
Thank you.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Thanks, Arcade and thanks Tor. I cannot wait to learn more about the Ascent. Keep an eye on Xbox Wire and maybe we'll have him back on the show as well as we get closer to launch.

Larry Hryb:
Yep we'll get [crosstalk 00:53:47].

Jeff Rubenstein:
That's up to you.

Larry Hryb:
I'm lining up more guests as well. We'll talk about that at the end of the show, because I want to hear from you the audience, who do you want me to talk to? Who you want to see? Because I've ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
I've really enjoyed your Dirt 5 interview. Was that last week or the week before as well?

Larry Hryb:
Thank you [crosstalk 00:54:04].

Jeff Rubenstein:
Very excited about racing at 120 hertz, 120 frames [crosstalk 00:54:08].

Larry Hryb:
Oh, my word. Yeah, that's going to be crazy.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I think it's a good point about this generation is, we're watching live streams that are coming through at like 720 or 1080, 30 frames a second maybe sometimes-

Larry Hryb:
Are you talking about this one?

Jeff Rubenstein:
... depending on your connection to 60.

Larry Hryb:
Are you talking about this ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
But there's limitations in bandwidth and without there being E3 and Packs and Gamescom this year, people don't get to have eyes on with the ... I think this generation is really going to be a lot about feel and you're really going to ... I just felt the mic there.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, I heard it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
They're really going to be ... Yeah, sorry about that. That doesn't necessarily come across. We can't even physically show you 120, Dirt 5 ray 120 frames a second. It's because right now this conduit doesn't exist to be able to do that. Looking forward to people being able to get hands on and really feeling this, because I think it's Going to be ... To get super cliché, it's going to be a game changer.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, Tor and Arcade talked a little bit about that how, and we talked about as well as the fact we're taking the latency in Xbox Series X, and reducing it even more. There's so much latency in the stack that people aren't even aware of. Maybe you feel a little bit of it, but it's one of those things where you can't explain it, you kind of have to feel it, right?

Jeff Rubenstein:
We did talk about this in I think back in March, and basically, everywhere from the controller, from the time that you're [inaudible 00:55:33] that the input, goes from your brain into your hand and you hit the button, and everything that happens all the way until it appears on this monitor, there is the potential for latency.

Larry Hryb:
There's a little bit more, and a little bit more, and a little bit more.

Jeff Rubenstein:
The engineering team looked at every single element and where does latency happen? They're reducing it across the board, and I think that's going to be something that people really do feel. I can't wait, can't wait.

Larry Hryb:
Engineer, our ... every engineer, they all love a hard problem and it's one of those things where, well, where can you save a half a millisecond? Well, you can do it here and a quarter of a millisecond here, and then another half. Well all of a sudden as you add those up, it kind of-

Jeff Rubenstein:
Exactly.

Larry Hryb:
... it makes a lot of difference. In a silo, it doesn't make a lot of sense or maybe ownership, but trust me they're working on this and it feels tight and it feels great. Jeffrey, you've got some news for us, do you not?

Jeff Rubenstein:
I do. We started this week with a really exciting announcement and that is-

Larry Hryb:
I got your ticker up there by the way.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Oh, good. All right. I don't see it, but I trust that it's there and it's probably ... Oh, wait, there we go. ARK celebrating its fifth birthday. [inaudible 00:56:38] believe it's been five years since ARK Survival Evolved. Anyway, EA announced Star Wars Squadrons, and it's coming to Xbox One on October 2nd. The trailer looked really cool and I love the dog fighting. It takes place during like I would say, an area of Star Wars in that timeline that people really like-

Larry Hryb:
Wait a minute.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... right towards the end if I think the ... Yeah?

Larry Hryb:
TIE Fighter or X-Wing? What's your jam?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Oh, TIE fighter for sure. No doubt. As a kid I did have an X-Wing too.

Larry Hryb:
I did too.

Jeff Rubenstein:
An X-Wing [inaudible 00:57:11]. I just didn't know why it did this, why are the wings going up [crosstalk 00:57:15]?

Larry Hryb:
It's attack formation. It's attack formation.

Jeff Rubenstein:
But what does it mean?

Larry Hryb:
I don't know what that means.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I'm sure somebody can answer that. Anyway-

Larry Hryb:
[crosstalk 00:57:22]. We'll get Gary on to answer that question.

Jeff Rubenstein:
He would know. Yeah, he would know. Anyway, there's a campaign, which I'm very excited about. I really liked in Battlefront too there was some fun ... While most of that was a shooter, there were piloting-

Larry Hryb:
Episodes.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... missions and I thought those were ... Yeah, episodes, and those were really fun. I think there were some Hoth esque sort of combat scenario. Yeah, definitely looking forward to seeing what this one's all about. Another big week for Fortnight. I don't know if ... Did you see the big event that took place a couple of days ago, where the storm turned into water?

Larry Hryb:
Yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
That was really cool, so we're now into-

Larry Hryb:
Some storms do that.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, but I mean like fully like ... Anyway, you could swim through the storm. It still hurts.

Larry Hryb:
By the way we missed an opportunity. We should have had you in game as the virtual weatherman.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I know and coming in ... yeah. We should get on that. Anyway, chapter two season three is here. There's a massive flood across the island. That team just really knows how to keep the game fresh, and so there's a lot going on there, and new battle pass and Aqua Man. Aqua Man's in it. Anyway, lot going on there. I'm sure you've already heard of that before hearing it from us. Sea of Thieves, we're keeping it nautical. Ghost ships are coming to Sea of Thieves in the haunted shores updated it is free. We say this three or four times a year. If you haven't played Sea of Thieves recently, you haven't played Sea of Thieves. It changes so much.
This is an update that the Captain Flameheart is coming in, and it's a big event. However much like previous events, things that were introduced are going to stay, so these gold ships are going to be a permanent fixture. There'll be things that you can earn bounties with the Order of Souls and you're going to be able to continue to do that throughout time. They're easier to kill individually than a corporeal ship, a real ship piloted by humans.

Larry Hryb:
Nice usage there Jeffery. Nice usage.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I'm getting my SAT scores and I'm using them, I'm using those words. Anyway, so I think that would be a fun addition to the game and you can do that. By the time you hear this, it is live and ready to go.

Larry Hryb:
Ready to go. There you go.

Jeff Rubenstein:
All right. We talked about ARPGs. This is ... Damn it. This an ARPG, Minecraft Dungeons. The Bard's Tale had an ARPG called the Bard's Tale ARPG but it is getting replaced mastered, remade and resnarkled.

Larry Hryb:
From our friends at inXile.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Our friends at inXile. It is out by the time you see this and the important thing is it is on Xbox Game Pass for PC and for console. I'm always willing to try a new ARPG out. Something that I thought was interesting, I was reading an article on Xbox Wire out today about just how the game was made. Cary Elwes is a voice actor on that, so you might recognize him.

Larry Hryb:
As you wish.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Right from ... Yes, exactly, from The Princess Bride.

Larry Hryb:
Among others.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Many others. He was most recently that I remember him was, he was the mayor in season two or season three of Stranger Things. He's been in a lot of stuff.

Larry Hryb:
Was he? I guess I missed that.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. I want to say it was season three. It was the most recent one that he knew all the stuff that was going on down at the mall. But anyway, so he had a pretty significant role there.

Larry Hryb:
Do we have season four coming out? When do we get season four by the way?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Usually by now they would have had a teaser but everything going on has really slowed down production.

Larry Hryb:
The problem is, one of the many problems is usually next month is usually San Diego Comic Con, where a lot of things are announced and obviously they've gone to a virtual, so we'll see how that shakes out. Sorry to sidestep you Jeffrey.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, I think last year ... One year it debuted on July 4th, I think it was season two, then season three debuted on Halloween. They usually find a time so maybe this year's will come out on Christmas. I don't know but ...

Larry Hryb:
Hope so.

Jeff Rubenstein:
[inaudible 01:01:32] the next season is but I love Stranger Things. Anyway, Cary Elwes-

Larry Hryb:
I do too, I do too.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... in the Bard's Tale ARPG. Another one of our new groups of friends Obsidian Entertainment, Grounded. We announced that at XO19.

Larry Hryb:
That was my last public appearance was a panel I did at PAX.

Jeff Rubenstein:
PAX East, right? Yeah.

Larry Hryb:
PAX East yeah.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Well-

Larry Hryb:
At that Gen Con conference or whatever it was.

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's now ... That's right ... Xbox Insider maybe playing it now. It's just a very short test, a grounded flight as we're calling it.

Larry Hryb:
In the gaming [inaudible 01:02:07] we call it a slice.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Sure, but it's a flight and the irony of like flight, grounded. Anyway, whatever. That's taking place now through June 22nd. If you're in Insider both on Xbox and on Steam, you should take a look and see there's a single player demo. The game will come into Xbox Game Pass through the Xbox Game Preview program at the end of July of this year. That's really not that far away. It's mid June, does not feel like mid June Larry, maybe because it's '59 all ready.

Larry Hryb:
Gee where did 2020 go as I walk around my house for the 10,000th time?

Jeff Rubenstein:
It can't go fast enough. It can't go fast. Look, soccer is back. Soccer is back today and I'm so excited. Hundred days with no Premiership soccer.

Larry Hryb:
Are you okay I mean I know that [crosstalk 01:02:54]?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Feels like it's been 1,000 days.

Larry Hryb:
I'm a little disappointed.

Jeff Rubenstein:
I'm glad it's back.

Larry Hryb:
I figured you'd have your premiership, your merch on.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Well, it's funny, I do have a Dreamcast kit from Arsenal from like 20 years ago, but maybe I'll wear it next time since you requested it.

Larry Hryb:
I would like it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
All right, I'll just blow through a couple more just real quick hits. 13, do you remember that game from I want to say the OG Xbox? Definitely from that era of the early 2000s. It was one of the first cell shaded games that looked really [inaudible 01:03:29].

Larry Hryb:
Oh, I do.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Well, it's now available for pre-order and pre-download on Xbox One. It's completely remade. It came out in 2003 actually. I just remembered just that is a game that I bought on look alone. And is a look I think can hold up, so I'm very interested in seeing more of that.

Larry Hryb:
34 levels solo campaign. Yeah, look at this thing. I do remember this.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. The next game that I'll be playing is Disintegration that just came out this week. It is an interesting combination of a third person shooter and an RTS. It has multiplayer but also has a campaign which I heard was pretty fun. I was watching our friend Jake Baldino over on Gameranx, he had some great stuff to say about it. You fly a grab cycle I believe it's called, and you direct a small team of troops or allies along to take on both, again multiplayer and in single player adventure. Looking forward to trying that out. That is out this week. I want to congratulate the team behind Blood Stained: Ritual of The Night. This is a game that I had a ton of fun with earlier this year.

Larry Hryb:
You finished it didn't you?

Jeff Rubenstein:
I did. Yeah, it's a spiritual successor to Symphony of the Night, and obviously same developer, Igarashi-san. Great game and they've got a million ... they sold over a million copies of that game. The cool thing about it is they're continuing to support it, they're putting in new characters, new mode, stuff that's already come out. You really don't see a game like that continue to be supported in that way very often. We have some, a whole timeline actually. I love a good timeline on Xbox Wire. Just look for Bloodstained. You just pop that into the search bar, you'll see the [inaudible 01:05:19] 505 Games talking about that.

Larry Hryb:
Lovely.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Just a couple other little things here. EA Access, you can join that for 99 cents. We were talking about the new Star Wars game they're going to have. Obviously if you have EA Access you typically get to play games faster and buy them cheaper, so it's pretty much a win, especially if you're going to be joining for 99 cents, and that's something that you can do right now. They Dontnod they announced ... We know that they're working on a game for us, that's going to be coming out later this summer. Well, Twin Mirror is a game that is more of an adventure thriller that is going to be coming out, so very different type of game and so I think it's pretty cool.
Tell Me Why of course will be coming out first. That'll be available this summer, but for them to be coming out with a second game. They haven't announced when, but specifically they said this year so I'm assuming after Tell Me Why, Twin Mirror.

Larry Hryb:
A lot of news.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Last thing.

Larry Hryb:
Last but not least.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You played Witcher 3, right Larry?

Larry Hryb:
I finished the main game one of the add-ons. I have not finished the second add-on and I am embarrassed to say, because it is...

Jeff Rubenstein:
Blood and Wine?

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, it is one of the most-

Jeff Rubenstein:
You should go back. You should do it.

Larry Hryb:
... it is one of the most beautiful worlds. The problem I run into and this is not just Witcher. You know what it's like, you play these incredible experiences and it's a fairly sophisticated control scheme. You go back in there two or three years-

Jeff Rubenstein:
Absolutely.

Larry Hryb:
... later and you're like all of a sudden ... You're not in the Witcher, you're throwing a grenade but I'm just like, "Oh, I didn't mean to do that." All of a sudden the entire village is angry at me.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, no, I-

Larry Hryb:
We've all been there.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... totally feel you on that.

Larry Hryb:
Is there a name for that?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah because I think I took a ... The Germans probably have a word for that [crosstalk 01:07:05].

Larry Hryb:
Or the Swedes, [crosstalk 01:07:06] very specific name, right?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. I totally feel you on that because it was probably three years from the time I finished the Witcher until I went into the first DLC, and then straight into the second one. It definitely took an hour before I got a feel for it. But they did modernize significantly the interface even just like mixing the potions and things like that, and made it ... They really cleaned that up and sped it up. I remember I was waiting for it to come out and be updated for One X and that was the best way to play it. Anyway, if you have it, and I know so many of you do.

Larry Hryb:
If you don't have it, why don't you have it?

Jeff Rubenstein:
True. I just wanted to [inaudible 01:07:43], this is less of an Xbox thing, but if you own it on Xbox, GOG is offering it for free to up to get it on PC. Hey, why not? If you haven't played it in a while, maybe you've recently got a PC, a gaming PC or something like that so GOG Galaxy, you'll be able to just search for Witcher 3 and it'll pop up in news, but I thought that was a cool thing. Look, people are always looking to save some money, especially now, so go get your free copy of The Witcher on PC because why wouldn't you?

Larry Hryb:
What are you doing?

Jeff Rubenstein:
What are you doing? [crosstalk 01:08:14].

Larry Hryb:
Now, I know we've also got a blog post up on Wire. Let me see if I can pull this up here about some of the cool stuff we're doing for Pride Month, right?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah.

Larry Hryb:
Do you have that?

Jeff Rubenstein:
I think we selected ... Yeah, I can get that.

Larry Hryb:
Let's pull that story up here. I'm kind of going through it. There's a lot [crosstalk 01:08:32].

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, Play with Pride. Yeah, so Microsoft is honoring Pride this year, and contributing a quarter million dollars to LGBTQI+, and racial equity nonprofits around the world. This is the ... You were talking about some of the new gear at gear.xbox.com that is celebrating pride. Some of it looks really cool. I've ordered and some of it is showing up here. There are some collections of games for select people in the US, Canada and UK they can check out and on the Xbox app on PC, so through the entire Pride Month of June.

Larry Hryb:
There you go, so ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
Some of those are Xbox Game Pass games as well so you can just go through and you can select them and download them using your Game Pass.

Larry Hryb:
Pimp the pin again. Pimp the pin again, because I love that pin.

Jeff Rubenstein:
It is a heck of a pin.

Larry Hryb:
What a week it's been, and [crosstalk 01:09:26].

Jeff Rubenstein:
Oh my god. I'm exhausted just talking about it.

Larry Hryb:
You and I were talking about this because it's ... Here let me shut the ticker off since we're done with the news section. You and I were talking about this, because the E3 is always historically, it's a huge event for gamers and unfortunately it didn't happen this year. But we've been busier, way busier than I feel in E3. Would you agree with that sentiment?

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. I think this is affecting a lot of people. I was talking to a fellow parent in my ... one of my kid's friend's dad's. He was just like, "Do you just feel super busy?" He doesn't even work ... I don't even know where he works. But I think just the transition for some people ... This is affecting different people in different ways. I always feel just blessed to be working. My wife was not working for most of what's been happening, so I think adjusting is especially as people that are used to seeing people every day, it's having to turn that into email and it's very different and it's very stressful in a different way.
I love the travel. I love getting out to be able to meet with media, with fans, with [crosstalk 01:10:41] influencers and with other people that we work with. Heck even be able to see you from time to time Larry is not the worst thing in the world. Yeah, it's-

Larry Hryb:
I will say ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
... an adjustment but I'm glad we get to do this. This is good. This is [crosstalk 01:10:53].

Larry Hryb:
Again, this is why I made the transition to video. It's funny, during the week Jeff and I are working on ... We've got our own things we're doing, our day jobs. Obviously we use Microsoft Teams, and I've got Jeff, he's one of my little favorites at the top and I'll see if he's green and I'll just click call.

Jeff Rubenstein:
You keep up with me better than just about anybody. I feel bad. You have to take those extra steps.

Larry Hryb:
I think it's a race between you and me and like your mom, who reaches out to you more so ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
It's you by an order of magnitude. I get the call about once a week like, "Are you mad at me? Are you mad at me Jeffrey?" I'm like "I'm not mad. I just ... How did the week go by so quickly? I don't even know." That's not good.

Larry Hryb:
But we're going to continue to do things like this because I think people enjoy it. Let us know what you think. Look, do you want to do it or do you want me to do it Jeff?

Jeff Rubenstein:
What are you going to say? Like and subscribe, you're going to say that?

Larry Hryb:
There you go. Hit the little thing with the bell. You guys know what to do. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to go through all that malarkey. But we're transitioning ... I think we've successfully made the transition to video. It was a bumpy ride there for a little bit, but we did it. We're cooking along here. We'd love the feedback. Either hit me up on, you can hit us up on our Twitter. You can see it right below. You see Jeff's over there. Now I'm doing it. You see Jeff's over there.

Jeff Rubenstein:
All the complaints to me.

Larry Hryb:
Yes. All the complaints at Jeff Rubenstein. You can hit us up or drop it in the comments. But yeah-

Jeff Rubenstein:
Feedback to that guy.

Larry Hryb:
... who do you want to see for interviews? We got Gary Whitta. I told Gary, we have him on in a future show. I'll go after anybody you want, so let me know. We've got a few people. Jason's going to come back on. We have more developers lined up. Next week, we've got even more, so we've got a lot going on. But let us know what you want right? So [crosstalk 01:12:37].

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah. Look, and I just want everyone to just be safe. Use your mask. Be considerate. Think of other people.

Larry Hryb:
I have my mask over there.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Upside down.

Larry Hryb:
It is upside down.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Use it. [inaudible 01:12:48] I wish we had some Xbox masks. We should talk to ...

Larry Hryb:
[crosstalk 01:12:54] I agree.

Jeff Rubenstein:
We don't control these things, but [crosstalk 01:12:58].

Larry Hryb:
I came up with [crosstalk 01:13:01] idea. That was my idea. That was it.

Jeff Rubenstein:
What if I could put a pin on the mask? That's [crosstalk 01:13:06].

Larry Hryb:
Oh that's a great ... You know what? I'm going to do that. Hold on a minute. Hold on a minute.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Well, wait before you poke it someone's going to say that we're ruining the efficacy of the mask-

Larry Hryb:
Hold on, hold on.

Jeff Rubenstein:
... and he might be right. [crosstalk 01:13:16] He's going to do it. He's going to ...

Larry Hryb:
I think I could do this. But yeah, I mean not going to ... Do you think it's going to-

Jeff Rubenstein:
But will it ruin the mask? I don't know.

Larry Hryb:
Do you think it's going to negatively affect the impact ... Here's my mask. I have a little bit of blueness so ...

Jeff Rubenstein:
Yeah, well, I'm just thinking poking a hole in a mask may be ... When you say it out loud, you realize that's probably not the best way to do it.

Larry Hryb:
Yeah, not a good idea.

Jeff Rubenstein:
We'll think of ... Stickers. We'll do stickers.

Larry Hryb:
Defeats the purpose so ... All right, we're going to wrap it up here.

Jeff Rubenstein:
[crosstalk 01:13:46]. All right, go.

Larry Hryb:
No, go ahead. You had something else you wanted to say, what is it?

Jeff Rubenstein:
You said it defeats the purpose. I saw someone with an Undefeated mask. Undefeated is a street wear brand, we've worked with them on Gears 5 I want to say or Gears 4, and that exists. That's a thing, so like mask chic is totally happening. I feel like my boring masks are just not cutting it on the catwalks of Milan. I'm not going to make it.

Larry Hryb:
I do have a little bit of something to tell you. I actually like wearing a mask.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Really? Why is that?

Larry Hryb:
I don't get recognized now.

Jeff Rubenstein:
Wow, that's not my ... I don't have that problem. It covers up my nose, which is helpful.

Larry Hryb:
All right, so this is the ... All right we're going to put our mask back on because we're wrapping up the show. Thanks, everybody for tuning in. Make sure you let us know what you'd like for ... Let me put this back on. See, does it even work? There we go. Let us know what you want-

Jeff Rubenstein:
I think it'll work. You've got to cover your nose. Don't be that guy.

Larry Hryb:
I know. I know. Let us know what you're looking for in terms of guests and what you think of the show. Drop us the feedback, hit me up at @majornelson, @Jeff. Jeff you got anything else you want to say before we go?

Jeff Rubenstein:
No, just be safe. Be careful. We love you.

Larry Hryb:
All right, we'll talk to you guys later. Bye, everybody.